Language learning debates 1: Input vs Output

The Input vs Output debate
The input philosophy- Language enters your brain from messages that you read or hear and most importantly understand. Language can be make comprehensible through the use of translation or with demonstration, acting and pictures. When you understand what a sentence or word means you just need to hear and read that word enough times in the proper contexts for it to enter your brain and become a part of your vocabulary and something you can use. The main components of this theory is that the language needs to be made understandable and also kept simple. If you go straight for the advanced material its very hard to understand how a sentence works because of complex grammar structures and different word usage. So you should start with the most basic S V O sentences and gradually build with lots of repetition to make it stick.

Conversely if you were to turn on the radio in a language you know next to nothing in it is very unlikely you will learn anything. You don't have the basic building blocks of the language to make a guess at the gaps and you don't have any visual stimulus to let you know what they are talking about so because the input isn't comprehensible and is therefore useless.

This approach downplays lengthy grammar explanations and too much free speaking initially. The grammar explanations are useless according to this approach because its useless to search for a rule in your head on how to order the sentence while you are in the middle of a conversation. It would be too slow and frustrating for the listener. The best thing to do is to get as many examples of a grammar pattern using different vocabulary and to listen to them many times over. Eventually the brain will acquire the grammar naturally.

As for speaking, I don't think there is too much pushing for people to never make the sounds of the language with their mouths but just that it be copying a teacher or reading a correct and accurate sentence from a textbook rather than inventing their own when they don't already instinctively understand how to use the grammar as they will make mistakes and reinforce them in the memory through practice.

The output philosophy- The output philosophy has always been around that in order to get better at a language one needs to practice speaking it. It was never called the output approach until the input approach was invented to oppose it. It mainly takes shape as 'communicative language teaching/learning' in the average classroom. In the classroom this means a lot of pair and group work to maximize speaking opportunities as well as debates, asking students to talk about themselves and their opinions etc.

Outside the classroom it generally means actively searching for native speakers to speak to, whether by placing yourself close to them or by doing language exchanges and such.

The idea here is that languages are for speaking and if you just read and listen you will only get better at reading and listening not speaking. It is also believed that language is a social thing and that language sticks in the brain when it is used to communicate ideas with people and to achieve goals.

My interpretation-
I sort of side closer to the input side of the debate but generally feel that they are two sides of the same coin. I believe you should spend the majority of your time reading and listening to learn new words and phrases more efficiently. Although you can get 'input' through conversations such as whenever the person you are talking makes a statement or asks you a question in a comprehensible way this is generally a pretty inefficient way of getting input unless the other person is a trained language teacher. Language exchanges can be pretty meandering chats and it is often on the learner to give the chat structure by asking to be walked through a textbook and continually asking for examples and explanations of word as well as lots of repetition.

However the ultimate goal in language is to use it to communicate and I think if you aren't using it to make friends and new relationships or using it to function in society then you are missing out on half the joy. You shouldn't have to wait until you are good enough to begin enjoying this part of learning a new language. Constantly using a language to communicate gives you a good benchmark of where you are, what your strengths and weaknesses are what you need to work on. Did I understand the person I was speaking to? Did they understand me? This is a good motivator to keep driving yourself forward.

I also think that speaking is a skill that needs to be practiced but that you should first try to get a feel for words and phrases by seeing and hearing them many times in context before trying to make your own sentences with them. Nothing annoys me more than teachers who teach a word or sentence to me and ask me to create my own original sentence with it 30 seconds later. So I do believe that output is a good thing but not until after lots of input first.

Listen, read, understand and then speak.

Language Learning methods: sources

Just as a forward none of these ideas were originally mine and my language learning philosophy has been scraped together from the many other and very useful (if you are into languages) language learning blogs about on the internet. So I'll quickly list them now

Fluent in 3 months with Benny
Benny is a polyglot (speaker of multiple languages) who subscribes to a speak from day 1 and speak as much as possible to learn and get better at languages. He can be a bit caustic to those who criticise or disagree with him but he has some really good stuff for motivation and about how to find opportunities to speak the language you are learning.

Steve Kaufman's the Linguist on language
Steve has a blog to but he more often posts videos on youtube these days. He subscribes to an input based approach which emphasises listening and reading (input) over speaking (output) to improve your ability. He also has a site you can go to to learn languages called www.lingq.com I don't really use it because the Chinese portion is all in simplified which I can't be bothered learning at the moment. But I do like the set up and idea of it. He also emphasises content made for native speakers (actual content) over textbooks and things made for learners. He speaks 10 or so languages.

Khatzumoto's all Japanese all the time
Khatzumoto also subscribes to an input over output philosophy with an emphasis on actual content as well as use of Spaced repitition Systems and trying to maximize the time you are either listening or reading so that you are absorbed in the language for the entire course of your waking day. He specializes in Japanese but has also recently added Cantonese to his repertoire. He has some great articles about motivation and making learning interesting.
antimoon
Kind of like the above but by Poles who learned English really well. Pretty interesting
Steven Krashen's youtube video
The original linguist and theorist who created the input hypothesis that many language bloggers base their learning philosophies on. Great video.
Hacking Chinese with Olle Linge
He doesn't ascribe to any particular philosophy as such and uses a take what works middle of the line approach. Absolutely recommended if you study Chinese.

Back from inaction

Well I'm back... after more than a year. I'm not sure why I stopped writing last time, I think I left starting my blog until I had been here for a while, wrote a lot very quickly and then ran out of ideas and stopped. Then I just got into the habit of not writing.

I'd like to get back into the habit of writing this again. I think the focus will mainly be learning Chinese which has been my main interest for the past year and a bit. I will add a few pieces here and there about life in Taiwan but I think I have been here for too long. Everything feels pretty normal and not exotic. It's hard to write what amounts to a travel blog for a place that feels like home.

So recent developments? I'm still in the same job with the same employer and have signed on for another six months. I told myself that my second year would be my last and it was time to move on. However I've decided to study Chinese at university in an effort to get my Chinese to where I want it to be. Seeing as the town I live in has a university with a Chinese program it seems easier to stay in a job where they can work around my schedule and everything is already routine.

As for the choice to study at university, economically it seems better value for money than working with a private teacher at least by the hour. For some strange reason I have this conception that in order to get your Chinese accredited for work purposes you should have credits in it at a university somewhere. I'm sure you probably only have to take a proficiency test.

But for some reason I get this nagging feeling that if I ever get presented with an opportunity by a white employer who doesn't speak Chinese, who then asks 'Where did you learn Chinese?' my claims of self study to proficiency will amount to no more than 'I learned my Chinese from the streets YO.'

Nevertheless there could be a strong chance that I won't enjoy the university experience. Firstly from the few people I have known to study at university here. Most have enjoyed it but almost all have complained of clashing with Chinese educational culture and traditional language learning methods.

Most university courses in Chinese tend to focus on frequent testing as the motivator to keep students working hard. However this is usually paired with an intense workload of many many new words and characters each week. There is nothing wrong with working hard but the problem with introducing too many words each week is the next week you will have to learn many new ones and don't have the time to review the words you learned before. So it is all short time learning. You learn a lot of new words for the test and then forget them all in two weeks because you are busy cramming for the new test.

Either way it isn't a very intensive course. Only six hours a week. I'm sure the homework will be manageable and I'll still have time to study in my own way too.